Um, yes?
Begging the question logical fallacy
With this instrumental reductionism, are you seriously, really taking the artist out of the equation? Oh boy.
yeah leave “artist” out of it!
im obvious talking about games/code… (but even some would call that artistic to a degree)…
anyone claiming they are the shiznit while using AI are only fooling themselves..that shouldnt concern you or me.. thats theirs to own…
i cant see how you cant see how everyone benefits in the long run… when theres more choice?, when theres more code available for “real” devs to take inspiration from?..
i can see AI opening up new things we havent even considered yet… but seems a lot are too closed minded to think of the possibilities…
and here one for you all to ponder…
why have i been more productive in the last 6 months than i have been in the last 3 decades?!
(the answer is AI!)
I’d argue games as definitely a form of art, so…
This here is the big problem. What is better - have a small pond of crystal clear water to drink from, or a large muddy, poisoned pool? The “more choice” is absolutely not the case.
Perhaps, in the future.
For now, all things point to the exact opposite.
Because productivity != art.
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im not claiming productivity is art… and neither is any of the code ive produced with AI… the end product, possibly could call it art (im thinking my emu and other tool based stuff atm!)
how is more choice a problem, like Andy stated (and i tried to!), we have waded through tons of very average games from the inception of the CPC, and rarely a good one would come along…(we even PAID our hard earned to buy the said average games)
i dont see the difference with whats being produced by PEOPLE prompting AI right now…i really cant see any difference… please enlighten me! 
dont get me wrong im not sayin the whole thing is roses!.. theres defo some issues that need sorting out (that we’re not gonna solve by spewing text here!)
pushing people away for their choice of ‘whatever’ is only going to fragment and hurt the community
@Gryzor i get you are probably a bit overwelmed with the amount of posts ya have to moderate n check on.. maybe ya should get one or 2 top members to help you moderate them…
Earlier, they mentioned the case of Reassembler and his project to port Sonic to the Amiga 1200.
A few days ago, someone used AI, drawing on the technical details Reassembler shared, to create and release their own port of Sonic in just a few days requiring a 060 accelerator to run properly.
That’s when the controversy arose because Reassembler hadn’t even finished his manual port when someone else used his work and the AI to release a shoddy version before he did, which made Reassembler lose the motivation to continue a project that was well done and eagerly awaited by the community.
In the end, I think the AI developer withdrew their port in the face of criticism, and Reassembler decided to continue his port.
This anecdote is just one example of how AI can poison a community and undermine the quality of developments, whilst also deterring people from sharing the progress of their projects for fear that their ideas or techniques might be stolen using AI.
AI is set to bring about profound changes in communities such as ours, it has the potential both to multiply the new software like to destroy the scene, it will all depend on how it is used.
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It’s still manageable, though for sure the new forum proves more lively than the old one
I’m not alone either, tho
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yeah thats not on…thats the sort of stuff we really need to sort out…(easier said than done!)
really that has nothing to do with AI tho… and all to do with the person…the AI didnt just spring up and do it all by itself…
How can some product be labelled ‘art’ without the process behind it be ‘artistic’?
Then, bringing into subject ‘very average human-made games (of the past or the present)’ and ‘very average AI prompted games (of the present)’ and treating them the same, you only end up with a situation where ‘human slop = AI slop’. Are they the same, though? I mean, ok, I generally agree that we should call ‘slop’ for what it is, but is it fair if you weight in the effort difference between the two practices?
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the process behind art does not have to be artistic…have you seen some of the “techniques” behind some art?.. far from what anyone would call artistic!..throwing paint at a canvas is far from artistic.. yet it sells as a ‘masterpiece’ for millions…art is, and always has been subjective.. just like AI usage is and always will be subjective!..ive seen some AI produced art that is actually quite good (to me!)..
effort difference?.. hand coding (in whatever language) vs using AI is EXACTLY THE SAME THING as ASM vs high level language coding… AI is just now the top level language..
why do devs even disclose their techniques? i mean they obviously want them to be public and used..but as we can see, AI isnt the problem, people are! its a person behind EVERY AI project out there…
That is, again, an ad absurdum argument.
And you really don’t want to open that discussion with @rexbeng , believe me (I know I wouldn’t), not with his studies 
AI the top level language? Same thing as high-level coding?
Erm… That’s not ad absurdum, that’s just (and I apologise) absurd
i see where this is going… a pointless argument!..
both sides arguments are legitimate, and no matter what one says, there is always a counter argument.. you can call it absurd as much as you like… it doesnt mean its wrong!
Yeah, we’ve already had this discussion between us, in the old forum. I understand that you don’t have a thorough opinion regarding art, so let’s leave it there. The ‘art world’ disagrees with what you are saying though.
As far as the ‘exactly same thing’ argument, I think I’ll leave that to coders.
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as i said..pointless argument…
the “art world”..SMH.. Art is in the eye of the beholder… 100% subjective… of course the art world is gonna say that, they trying to flog their 2 mins of throwing paint at a canvas for millions of dollars (oh that sounds a lot like the current AI situation we’re in!)
like i said… both sides have equally valid points and the whole topic is going nowhere!..
we should be focusing on how to sort out the mess that isnt going away no matter how much text we throw at a forum!
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, not art.
Art is meaning and is transcendent. Comparing a banana taped to a wall with the works of El Greco is quite a long shot…
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Basically the discussion in an exercise in logical fallacies. Here: ad absurdum, something else I don’t remember and considering own argument as valid being a valid one (I don’t remember the name either). Too tired.
PS claiming “they say stupid is art, therefore AI is art” is…
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This is why I make it clear that I use AI to assist me in coding (nothing more), and all my code is released under the GPL anyway. This all avoids all this problem (well most of it anyway)
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but…both are considered “art”… thats what im sayin…
its exactly the same as the AI game situation here… some gems amongst the slop..or some great works amongst some very average works…you said it yourself.. “Comparing a banana taped to a wall with the works of El Greco is quite a long shot…”
thats what im trying to say!.. there will be gems…but there will be alot of slop we all have to wade through…
which again..is no different to the whole games industry for the last 40-50 years…
but what makes your opinion any better than mine?
i think what you say is absurd… you think what i say is absurd… (altho i listen to whats being said and dont dismiss it completely!)
this is the whole point im trying to get at, people are NEVER going to agree, especially in this day an age, and when things are absolutely subjective… its got nothing to do with AI, and everything to do with People…
AI isnt going to take your job by itself, PEOPLE make that decision… AI didnt steal your game, a PERSON did…
ya’ll quick to blame AI…when its the people prompting it to “do bad things”
I agree with you int the sense that AI itself is an incredible tool, but I feel it’s been introduced very irresponsibly and that the amount of slop we have is not AI’s fault but of the people using it.
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Look, @WacKEDmaN, opinions ‘are like assholes’. We are not here to flex about whose asshole is more important.
Then, with regards to El Greco, bananas and the question of whether the beholder actually sees or superficially stares and goes ‘I like’. If you really feel there’s something inside you that drives a need to understand art, the place to start is reading art history. It will help you become familiar with the (always radical) twists as they happened within the human history timeline.(1)
If you don’t understand the two as interconnected and how one may have driven the other, you will keep arguing with educated assholes about something you have little idea of. So, why even take it there in the first place?
As far as AI goes, I believe you do understand that nobody is blaming the object called ‘AI’ around here.
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